Atrocities Are Not A Deal Breaker

Ok rant time.  Sam Harris is horrible.  He is a moral monster who routinely uses his platform and reputation as 'rational person(tm)' to basically push the window more and more towards all out war and/or genocide.  but the Atheist community has still gleefully embraced him.

 <blockquote>Our panic and moral confusion were at first sublimated in attacks upon the hapless Governor Romney. I am no fan of Romney’s, and I would find the prospect of his presidency risible if it were not so depressing, but he did accurately detect the first bleats of fear in the Obama administration’s reaction to this crisis. Romney got the timing of events wrong—confusing, as many did, a statement made by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo for an official government response to the murder of Americans in Libya. But the truth is that the White House struck the same note of apology, disavowing the offending speech while claiming to protect free speech in principle. It may seem a small detail, given the heat of the moment—but so is a quivering lip.</blockquote>

Harris here is willing to defend Romney, a plutocrat who views 47% of the population as unruly servants that need to be controlled and is no friend to atheists or reason, simply because he hates Muslims almost as much as Harris does.  The worst part is that this is not at all the worst Harris has ever said.  He has defended racial profiling, even in the face of a frelling expert telling him it's pointless, he has defended preemptive strikes, total war and nuclear strikes.  If Harris had the same disdain for America he did for the Arab world he would have been on a watch list and possibly spirited away to an undisclosed location for some enhanced interrogation (which he also approves of!)

 Even more liberal institutions of it, like say the ACA which is in theory A+ and all has defended him in response to the observation that "holy shit Harris is an asshole".  Harris is no different from homophobes calling for an underground railroad of kidnapping.  How is he accepted by even progressive atheists/atheist groups?  Jeff Dee on Atheist Experience a few weeks ago basically defended Harris saying the crazy shit he said wasn't a deal breaker.  Aron Ra has said similar stuff defending Penn and others.  Their awful ideas and awful things they promote are not deal breakers.  Because *we* are not their targets.  To an atheist attacking Muslims isn't a deal breaker, it's not THAT serious to warrant exclusion.  To a white financially stable able bodied man Penn's insanity is not THAT serious.  Huge privilege, it is a HUGE fucking deal breaker to Arabs and Muslims and Penn's insanity is a huge deal breaker to the disabled and less wealthy or environmentally conscious.  This is why I really really hate the community.  The Atheist community engages in the same privilege blind support or (even worse) accommodating of bigotry because the targets aren't us.  Even worse I think Harris and Penn never will be disowned as they should be, because much like how an individual is much more likely to dig their heels in and defend a bad position if it they have publicly endorsed by them, the group as a whole has endorsed these assholes for so long that we're just going to keep making excuses for them.  Good money over bad, sunk costs.  It is the same mentality that causes Church's to protect their priests.  Rather than address these biases and blind spots Atheists are apparently just going to pretend that because they eschewed religion they are free from it, even as they defend war hawks, sexists, racists, and all around assholes.

The Religions Of The World In Three Minutes

Theism: (My) God is obvious!
Atheism: I don't believe in a god
Soft Atheism: I don't believe you've made your case for god
Hard Atheism: You've done such a shitty job arguing for that which should be evident that I disbelieve you
Deism: Santa Claus is real; but he doesn't give gifts and never leaves the North Pole
Christianity: By dedicating his suicide to himself God changed some douchebag rules he came up with
Liberal Christianity: Salvation through works.  Jesus is somehow important though!
Baptist Christianity: Salvation through Grace alone; also blacks Jews the gays are of the devil
Quiverful: Vagina=Vending Machine.  Don't ask what happens when the Snickers gets caught on the little hook.
Methodist Christianity: Where right wing nuts and lefty feel good Christians gather around awkwardly and pretend they share a unified theology
Prosperity Gospel: Trickle Down Theonomics
Faith Healing: Fuck amputees....stumpy ingrates!
Ultra Orthodox Judism: We are the chosen race, we are obsessed with blood purity and look down on all other peoples as inferior stock.  We are blind to the obvious irony of this
Reform Judism: They tried to kill us, they failed, lets eat
Liberal Judism: Let's eat
Church of England: Founded because some fat guy wanted to dump his wife
Church of Sweden: BORSH BORSH BORSH BORSH!
Moonyism: ~We're whalers on the moon!  We carry a harpoon.~
Hari Krishna: They won't let us on the tarmac anymore :(
Hinduism: There's a bunch of gods which are really one god and the universe are just aspects of them/him...also cows rule
Jainism: Daily mourning for the fallen mold spores starts at 8:15
Mormonism: Amway if you replace "toothpaste" with "Sex gods from outer space"
Fundamentalism Mormonism: Keeping rape, child marriage, child labor, and wellfare fraud alive!
Islam: We are peaceful, and if you say other wise we'll cut your fucking throat!
Liberal Islam: These men and Koran do not speak for the rest of us!
Jihadist Islam: Fuck peace, we'll cut your fucking throat!
Nation of Islam: Whitey gotta die
Agnosticism: Atheists who are convinced their farts smell of cinnabuns
New Atheist: Hey there! How's it going?  We'll be over here if you need us
Old Atheist: Hey, ignorant masses!  GOD IS DEAD!
Scientology: Premium content.  Please upgrade to paid subscription to read.
Shintoism: Glorified groundskeepers for historic shrines
Buddhism: Life is pain...if we deny everything about being human we can avoid that by retreating into a cowardly numb denial!
Confusism: Where half of fortune cookie sayings come from
Taoism: The other half come from here.
Satanism: Buddhists and atheists with the worst PR department imaginable
Wicca: If you hate the patriarchy and rules of Christianity but like the ritual and stupid outfits...also sometimes nudity
Paganism: Ancient practices dating way back to the 1960s!
Sikhism: Carry little daggers as symbols of power.  Paging Dr. Freud
Skin Head Christianity: White Jesus will save us!
Black Christianity: The white Jesus of our historical oppressors will save us!
Transhumanism: Robot Jesus will save us.
DavidTennantism: Glowy Tinkerbell Jesus will save us
Calvismism: God most likely created you just to send you to hell.  Nyah nyah!
Theologians: Atheists without balls
Voodoo: Shockingly compatible with Catholocism
Seven Day Adventistism: You'll make hair grow on your palms!
Jehovah's Witness: Real life popup ads
Catholocism (Developing world) Our suffering is a sign of God bring us closer to him!  We must tithe more!
Catholocism (Developed world) Shit, did I fall asleep during Mass again?
Creatonism: DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURP!
Young Earth Creationism: This book with talking donkeys and a man living in a fish is a historical acount
Old Earth Creationism: The Bible is infallible but God is a really shitty communicator
Theistic Evolutionism: Just because the foundation is horseshit doesn't mean the conclusion is!
Realians: Go on an Asian sex cruise and write it off as a religious pilgrimage
Rastafarianism: Don't be bogarting, mon!
Pastafarianism: YARG!

With All Due Respect, Good Sir; Go Fuck Your Self

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.~MLK jr. Letter From a Birmingham Jail.

“Politeness, n. The most acceptable hypocrisy.”
-Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

I had a disagreement online, that I had to share because it baffles me the level of yellow bellied, lukewarm, milquetoast, cowardly appeasement and quisling can exist from so called "LGBT supporters"

Gov Perry mimes jerking off the worlds smallest penis

   Here's the basics.  The topic was that Texas Governor Rick Perry has invited the governors of all 50 states including yours to join him for "The Response: A Call to Prayer for a Nation in Crisis." The problem? The event is being sponsored by rabidly hateful anti-LGBT organizations, including the American Family Association (AFA).   Obviously, people were upset not just at the LGBT issue but that the fucking Government is promoting religion...again.  The fact that it's supported by a hate group is frankly just a creamy icing on this crap cake.  


However, there was dissension.  Someone dared criticize religion...you know the damn inspiration for this kabuki bigot show.  I hate it when I see this; a religious fellow queer.  When you come across these people they hit a moral dissonance and have to decide whether to stand with LGBT rights and basic dignity, or with the religion.  Guess which one they seem to choose?

Why attack religion. These people are horrible people, but no need to attack religion. Maybe you don't like it, but if you ever want people to respect your views you NEED to start returning the favor; else we are doomed to an endless cycle ...of bigotry from BOTH sides. Learn to live and let live. Not everyone will approve of our lives, as we do not approve of theirs; yet we all must live, so learn to live and let live.

Equating disagreeing and criticizing religion, with the systematic promotion of hatred intolerance and legislating that into effect is disgusting.  It is morally indefensible.  Your fucking stupid religion is NOT equal to my and other's fucking lives.  You have just said that attacking an idea is the same as promoting the mistreatment and hate of an entire group.  This is how important this person's god is to them.  For this god they place the LGBT community including themselves on the sacrificial alter.  "Oh, I do want rights...but if it means insulting jebbus I'll shut up and be a good little abomination".  What can possibly be said to this other than "FUCK YOU"?

Does it attack lgbt folks? Yes. What does it accomplish: nothing.

Not for lack of they're trying.  Sorry, they mobilize the base.  They keep the hate alive.  It's support.  For every Klansmen tying the noose there was at least 5 silently cheering him on.  This is not NOTHING.  This is promoting the idea that LGBT are subhuman scum.  Beliefs inform action. You cannot hold in your heart such hatred and be ok with gay people.  You can't.  Don't kid yourself.  This is an ideological fight.  The religious right has great power and the will to use it.  Look at Uganda.  What have the same people who promote gay hate here done over there?  Nothing?  Ha!  They are stalled there only by the actions of us assholes who are willing to ATTACK their religious ideology.   And they still want to push that through.  They STILL want to kill gays.  KILL.  DEATH.  MURDER.  EXTERMINATION.  This is what they call for.  This is what these prayers mean and what they support.  This is what their faith promotes.  This is not nothing.  To call it nothing is to kick face in the dirt of people who have been killed by promoters of this faith based initiative.  What can possibly be said to this other than "FUCK YOU"?

Now, apply the logic in the reverse. Does it attack (religion, republicans, etc etc)? Does it accomplish anything?

Yes.  Yes it does.  Knowing Gay people hurts homophobia.  Knowing atheists and non-believers hurts fundamentalism.  If you don't speak out these people take that as silent agreement.  You need to make yourself heard.  You need to let these people know that it is NOT ok.  You need to make this socially shameful.  Look at Clint McCance.  He was shamed into an apology.  He surely didn't mean it, but the message was sent.  You can no longer promote the death and degradation of a group of people like that and expect people to take it. 

Think people!

Yeah I wish you would.


I put up a response.  

Oh go fuck your self. Telling the minority they have to respect the majority that spews constant bile at them is absurd. This both sides are wrong shit is the refuge of moral and intellectual cowardice. Religion tells gays they are vile for who they are and possible deserve to be tortured forever.  gays say 'no were not your an asshole for saying that' and you construe that as bigotry from both sides. Your part of the problem. Since you care so much more for ideology and organizations than actual people I suggest you go sequester yourself in a monastic life and leave the rest of reality alone

Which I think is roughly the level of respect such a comment deserved.  This person did not use profanity, but they sure as hell were disrespectful and insulting.

They did not appreciate this though.

Just FYI you can be polite and still disagree with someone. I didn't appreciate you speaking to me like that. We are both adults, please if you disagree be polite. Maybe someone will listen.

No.  No they won't.  People take disagreeing with them, especially on matters of religion as inherently impolite.  If you try to appease them with such politeness you're most likely going to have to go so far that they won't realize you're disagreeing with them.   If you're going to look at an argument and dismiss it because the person passionately disagreed with you and used bad language, you are not an ally worth having.  You would just be swayed away later by some bullshit argument because your thinking is inherently flawed. 

I agree using religion for negative motives is wrong, but I would like my full rights...so I need to give it to them as well. Do you think you can take someones freedom of speech while asking for rights of your own?

Fuck you.  I am not taking away your rights.  The fact that you take disagreement as an infringement on your rights, but are willing to look the other way on actual infringement is disgusting.  

Also why did you have to be so mean? You don't even know me...just wanted to say it seemed inappropriate.

 You know what?  Same question.  Why the fuck are you so nasty and hateful towards person?  You dress it up with sugar drops and gum balls and footy pajamas but you are a nasty small minded weasel. 

Btw if you don't intend on responding politely just disregard this message because I will delete a message with filth.

Then delete your own messages.   This is the same as when assholes like Limbaugh and co use words like "Halfrican American" and the like.  It doesn't matter what they said the intention behind the words and thoughts in their heart was still "nigger".  I'd much rather paint a promotion of reason and humanity and compassion big, loud and bold, than spew vile and hatred in a quiet voice.

Btw I'm a lesbian so I'm part of this community. We need to come together in peace not fight internally like they want.

Oh now it's THEY?  Now we want to talk in us vs them language?  If that's the case  look...you're not part of the community.  When push comes to shove you side with THEM.   There are women misogynists and all sorts of absurd self loathing and degradation.  You're sexuality does not remove you from criticism any more than your religion does.  You can be wrong.  You ARE wrong.  You are a queersling.  Seriously the only reason we would fight internally is because idiots like you are telling us not to fight them!

This is what I was meaning. "Go fuck yourself" etc leads to people fighting, which leads to trolling, which destroys a conversation thread etc.

No, saying something stupid leads to fighting because people will disagree.  What destroys a conversation is close mindedness....such as faith

I sent my reply..and hoping to come to some actually discussion, I was polite. 

Disagreeing with you no matter how strongly is not infringing on your speech rights.

If you want to make a passionate plea it is not reasonable to expect others to refrain themselves

I am slightly sorry if you personally had your feelings hurt. As you said I do not know you and anything I said is against ideas not people. I disagree strongly with what you said but not necessarily you as a person.

You were offended but I don't think you understand how what you said was viewed by others as insulting and disrespectful. I'm not going to tell you to withdraw or anything because I don't mind being offended or expect others to necessarily accommodate me though id appreciate if they took it into consideration

I apologies if the profanity offended you but hope you would consider whether it was the words or the intent behind that offended you.

I am not trying to be mean to you personally and if you like would gladly converse over email or pm on the issue in a more formal and less passionate exchange. I can respect someone on the whole for who they are or at very least as a person without respecting all their opinions.

I realize this probably isn't the response you had hoped for but I would have found it far more disrespectful to a person to lie or downplay something for their feelings as if I thought they were a child who couldn't deal.

As were adults I hope we can agree that strong disagreement with ideas isn't automatically some sort of statement of personal hate.

I elaborated my stance in another post and I hope that clarifies where I'm coming from and we can better understand each other.

I guess I can see how my view can be seen as asking a minority to keep quite or censor themselves; because in a way that is what I mean.

Note this.  And note the call was for the LBGT to censor themselves...not the Christians.  Get in the back of the bus and sit down!

I see so many people fighting over things like religion etc. We both know, and keep in mind I believe in God, nothing was going to be accomplished by their prayer meeting other than getting us all in a frazzle, and all their minions to think they are "doing something". If they are dumb enough to think praying is going to keep us from having rights, let them because then a lot of them will be wasting their efforts and time.

Why not speak out?  Why give them an inch when you can attack and point out their moral absurdity and vileness?  Why spare them the ridicule they deserve when all you have to do is flipping talk?  If you think that having all 50 of the states gather around to pray against gays isn't sending a strong message you're an idiot.  A) Church and state, look it up.  B) They have to talk and pray and plot and hate first before they can act.  To Godwin it, the Nazis did a lot of anti-Semitic ranting and raving and praying before they actually acted.  The price of liberty is constant vigilance.  To tell people not to do so little as to raise a voice is pathetic and is supporting the haters.

If we were to just let them have their religious events, and focus on things like how it's inappropriate for politicians to be officially involved in a religious event as reps of their state; we may actually get a few ears to listen without alienating the whole religious community. Sooner or later we are going to need their votes; so if they see LGBT rights as anti-religious it will be hard for them to be on our side.

Not as much as the fact that being GAY is anti-religious to these people.  This is not for the benefit of the idiots, this is for the lurkers as they say.  People need to see that communities WILL raise a voice and are not going to let themselves be slandered and trampled.  

I guess that's really my point. When people attack a large group of people on their beliefs it's being no better than them; and if history, not idealism, has taught is anything keeping the moral high-ground (wherever those personal morals my come) accomplishes a lot more in the long run.

So Charlie Chaplin was as bad as Adolf Hitler because he mocked Hitler?  MLK jr was as bad as The Grand Imperial Wizard?  Letting them think they are acting morally is not how you win the damn moral highground.  You have to point out that these people are acting immorally.  That isn't fucking immoral.  

Sorry if this is jumbled again typing on a phone. This is the sort of exchanges we need; emotions get high sometimes, but civility usually results in both groups gaining something :)

Look, civil rights isn't necessarily a zero sum gain thing.  But this is an instance where the religious nuts cannot GAIN something here.  If they gain , we loose.  If we gain they don't loose, save for the acceptance of their hate.  We cannot both offer to strengthen them and weaken their hold at the same time.  Someone is going to have to yield, and for goodness sake it better not be us. 

Sunday school is different in Sudan

Sorry but that is unmitigated nonsense. I believe that you only say this because it's your group being attacked.

Would you criticize at all people who are racist for religious reasons? Or people like in Africa who kill for religious reasons? Or people who oppress or debase or deform women based on religion?

Evil Triumphs when good men say nothing.

Its not a moral failing to speak out against moral failings and blatant bullshit. Maybe you should consider whether your belief in God is more important than the rights and dignity of other people or not. Because right now from how I see it you are siding with religious bigots and protecting THEM. This is a view I cannot respect and cannot humor anyone with. Intolerance of bigotry is not bigotry. We are talking about groups that are fundamentally, due to their dogma and basic tenants, uncivil to groups.

If someone would turn against gay rights because of the obvious fact that it means opposing some religious views than they are not an ally worth having.

The dogma and foundations of some peoples faith calls for hate. Skin heads have a heretic creationist religion that says nonwhites are the spawn of eve and the devil. Would you not attack their faith. Belief especially strong be...lief is not a shield from criticism. Truth can stand to scrutiny using faith to deny scrutiny and criticism is cowardice and an admission that those beliefs cannot stand up to reason and investigation. Faith is when you close your mind to other possibilities and the possibility of being wrong. By using faith to shield belief from even the harshest of earnest critique you are arguing for bigotry and ignorance.

Arguing just for gay rights with these people won't work because it is their faith. Your not disagreeing with them but with god and you cannot argue or change gods mind. Attacking and criticising the fundamental erroneous and irrational foundations of the faith is not only good for gay rights (as one of the best ways to break the biblical justification against gays) but good for the religious as it calls for them to base their faith in reality and reason. Aquinas, I believe, stated that with conflict of faith and reason reason must win.

The problem is not that speaking out against the religious justifications for bigotry will make LGBT seem anti-religious, the problem is that it IS Anti-religious to religious that are anti-gay. You can't deny this. Lying to them to get them on our side is damn disrespectful to them and to the LGBT community. Abolitionism is anti-religious to pro-slavery religion, LGBT rights is anti-anti-gay religion. Pretending other wise does not strengthen the LGBT stance, it strengthens the religious bigotry. It's letting a racist go along thinking he's a perfectly fair good person just because he doesn't lynch people.

From where I am sitting right now what you are calling Civility is what The Devil's Dictionary Defined as "The most socially accepted form of hypocrisy".

The only way both sides can gain something is for the religious to loose some faith. LGBT will only gain their support when their faith no longer dictates anti-gay stance and they gain intellectual honesty and wont hide behind faith.

 Faith alone is a horrible reason for any action. The idea that faith alone trumps everything needs to be attacked for the good of believers and non believers alike.

Telling someone to not do as little as raise a voice of protest against evil is a promotion of that evil.  There can be no moderates when it comes to human rights and civil freedom.  You are either for or against.  To be neutral is to silently approve of the status quo.  The deepest pit of hell is reserved for the opportunists and 'moderates'

Bigger Than Jesus: The Top Literary and Mythological Figures That Out Christ Christ!

Jesus Christ, the founding figure in Christian mythology is noted for being one of the most well known examples of the Messianic Figure.  The Messianic figure is more or less loves everyone.  The messiah is the figure that stands for and embodies; justice, love and forgiveness.  The best of humanity is defended by them and through their example they seek to awaken it in others.  To quote TV Tropes "The main character, simply put, . Loves them with a deep, spiritual love that means they will shake heaven and earth, destroy gods and planets, bring nations to their knees, etc. for the person they just met yesterday. They will believe the best of everyone, and constantly give someone a second chance (though they will defeat the Big Bad). They repay cruelty with kindness and anger with calm, as long as the attacks are only against them— they're not forgiving of harm done to others. They are the ones who will suffer for the sins of their loved ones. Most people think they're insane, but somehow they pull it off.  In their hands The Power of Love and The Power of Friendship can be an awesome force, they may be the standard bearer for the message that You Are Not Alone and if anything can redeem a person against the odds by showing them the light of goodness, it will probably be The Messiah." This ideal of selflessness and morality quite often transcends beyond their own self worth and leads to a heroic sacrifice or for them to suffer in place of another figure.  

In western culture Jesus is of course the most well known of these figures, and has even had a literary technique dubbed after him.  The Christ figure is a literary technique that authors use to draw allusions between their characters and the biblical Jesus Christ. More loosely, the Christ Figure is a spiritual or prophetic character who parallels Jesus, or other spiritual or prophetic figures.  Christ figures are often martyrs, sacrificing themselves for causes larger than themselves.

However, Christ of course is not the first of this archetype; There's a very long tradition of the prophetic or miraculous judicator/teacher/warrior/poet who inspires loyalty through the earnestness of his desire to serve.  Interestingly was well, the Jesus of the bible doesn't come out as good as he's played up in popular folk tale.  He can be snarky, nasty, mean spirited, selfish, irrational, and violent.  He's rude to his mother, rude to some of the people who come to him for healing, dismissive of the needs of the poor in one scene while promoting charity in another, violent towards merchants, and curses a fig tree for not bearing fruit for him out of season.  He also introduces the idea of eternal punishment, which by definition is an unjust atrocity.  The popular belief that he is the most moral figure in all of literature, makes these short comings all the more stark and disturbing.  It's for this reason I've gone through and plucked out some figures, literary and mythological, that do the Jesus story better than the Jesus of the bible did.  These are the top 8 who I find did the story better than Jesus

#1 John Coffey (The Green Mile)

I'm starting with an easy one, one intentionally designed to be a Jesus stand in: John Coffey from Stephen King's The Green Mile.  Originally told in serial format, the story is the memoirs of a retired corrections officer recounting his encounter with a most unusual death row inmate.  John Coffey doesn't at all seem the violent or murderous type; despite his conviction for the rape and brutal murder of two young girls.  He's kind, polite, soft spoken, compassionate.  He has a love of animals and a crippling fear of the dark.  He has the mentality of a child, but is clearly simply innocent and uneducated rather than unintelligent.  Coffey's supernatural nature is revealed when he starts healing the inflictions of those on death row.  He is able to take wounds and illnesses upon himself and then dispel them in the form of a swarm of moths.  Coffey is revealed to have been innocent of the crimes he's accused of (He had found the girls dead and was caught by the police cradling their dead bodies crying after failing to heal them).  Coffey having no realistic way to exonerate himself in the racist times, could escape with the help of the guards but chooses to remain on death row and be executed rather than put them in risk.  

Break Down of Christ Qualities

* Love and compassion for all creatures

*Performed miracles of healing

*Was flanked by two criminals: one wicked, the other repentant.  He befriended one and cursed the other

*Died in place of someone else for a crime not committed

Better Because...

Coffey I think exceeds Jesus for several main reasons.

          1) he does not hold an absolute claim to moral authority.  He is innocent but naive and is just trying to do the right thing as he understands it.  This childlike mindset makes him much more sympathetic and makes his death tragic

         2) How he died for our sins.  The line between the sins of humanity and the necessity of Jesus's death are vague and confusing.  Supposedly original sin necessitated that Jesus die as a human sacrifice, but that puts a collective guilt on everyone that is due to God's own problems and makes the whole passion a giant divine puppet show rather than a tragedy.  With Coffey his death is, while not necessary, inevitable due to the cruelty and bigotry of the human race.  The world that he's born into cannot tolerate a man like him and is blinded by racism and vengeance.  His death has much more meaning than Jesus's because, it ISN'T necessary.  It is a tragedy.  The world Coffey lived in truly LOST something by his death.  The world was given a beautiful and amazing gift and most of the human race was unable to even recognize it!  The greatest boon to humanity ever was whizzed away due to southern Jim Crow bullshit.  His is a death that tantalizes us with thoughts of what could have been if we were slightly better ourselves.  His death didn't save us, but reminded us of how much we are in need of salvation

Paul Edgecomb: 

On the day of my judgment, when I stand before God, and He asks me why did I kill one of his true miracles, what am I gonna say? That it was my job? My job? 

John Coffey: 

You tell God the Father it was a kindness you done. I know you hurtin' and worryin', I can feel it on you, but you oughta quit on it now. Because I want it over and done. I do. I'm tired, boss. Tired of bein' on the road, lonely as a sparrow in the rain. Tired of not ever having me a buddy to be with, or tell me where we's coming from or going to, or why. Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly to each other. I'm tired of all the pain I feel and hear in the world everyday. There's too much of it. It's like pieces of glass in my head all the time. Can you understand?

#2 Superman

"If you knew how you are loved, not one of you would raise a hand in rage again."

Superman is an interesting example because he more closely fits with the original Jewish ideal of the messiah than the Christian one.  Not surprising given his creators, he is very much cut from the Maccabees and Golem Imagery.  Sent from his dying planet by his father, Superman is a nigh invulnerable alien that seeks to his his power and gifts to protect humanity.  I have argued that quality that makes him Superman is not his strength or power, but the character that he does not abuse such power and choses to use it being a servant of humanity.  

They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son.     

 Break Down of Christ Qualities

* Love and compassion for all creatures

*Defender of Truth and Justice and Humanitarian Way

*Died and rose from the grave

*Through example seeks to lead the world into an age of peace and enlightenment.

*Not mortal but lived as one and was raised by mortal parents

Better Because...

As I said, Superman is much more of a Jewish Messiah, the warrior poet philosopher who establishes peace and prosperity than Jesus is.  He represents the hope and ideal that one will use power responsibly and charitably.  He practices the idea of the All Powerful Humble Figure much better than Jesus.  Where Jesus is risen and is now LORD, Superman is all powerful but remains a servant and friend of earth.  He does not conquer, he does not proclaim himself supreme and he does not dictate to earth.  His goal is to protect earth from threats both external and internal and provide a guiding light by which they can find their own way to a heavenly kingdom.  Jesus demands that one love him and devote themselves to him, Superman has no such insistence.  Even a sworn enemy who needs help can find it from the Son of Krypton.  It is also Superman's humanity that makes him exceptionable.  His childhood as a mortal has instilled in him an awareness of how easily power can corrupt and how important it is to keep it in check.  It's this humanity that causes him to constantly keep a check and eye on his own power, holding back in fear of becoming a tyrant.  

The other big plus for Superman is his action.  The constant insistence on why Jesus does not perform miracles to save people from evil, be it natural disaster or man made is that it would violate humanity's collective freewill.  Superman doesn't buy that bullshit.  He very much does not want to rule humanity and wants to stay hands off enough to let humanity find it's own way...but he's not going to sacrifice people for that.  He won't rule and he won't dictate, but he will intervene to keep us from dying by natural disaster or from destroying ourselves.  He acts as a safety net, keeping his world secure, but striving to ensure more than enough freedom that they are not dependent upon him.  And with the super senses and hearing....if you pray to Superman there's an actual chance he'll show up and do something!  

#3 Robocop

Serve the public trust, protect the innocent, uphold the law. 

Oh yeah he's one that needs an explanation.  On first glance the protagonist of the sci-fi action slug-fest movie seems an unlikely stand in for Jesus of Nazareth.  But if you look at the movie (which honestly is FAR smarter than it has any right to be actually) you'll see that it fits.  Robocop starts out as a human Murphy who is brutally killed in the line of duty.  In fact, while he's killed by guns rather than crucifixion the wounds inflicted upon him are oddly reminiscent of the passion (piercing his sides, hands, feet).  He is reborn, via a mix of SCIENCE and corporate greed to be a automatic police force.  Throughout his career he proves that despite the power the technological necromancy grants him, it is the human part that makes him worth while.  

 Break Down of Christ Qualities

* Born into a world of utter deprativty: It's a lot easier to SEE what that means in Robocop's world.  The streets are filled with crime and the politics are ruled by corrupt and immoral buisness douches.  Both breeds of evil are the catalysts for forming Murphy's rebirth.

*Self Sacrficing: Aside from his original death, Murphy has been shown to continue to fight even when his technological wizardry fails and he is in risk of death.  

*Mocked by Executioners.  

*Ultimate Sacrifice: See bellow

*Revoking the Old Law:  There's a scene in the second movie where Murphy is loaded down with a series of contradictory and useless laws and decency instructions.  He winds up wiping that out of his memory banks and pretty much just leaves the main instruction: Serve the Public Trust.  I don't know if the writers were intending this to be reminiscent of the liberal Christianity idea of Jesus revoking the old Mosaic barbaric laws in favor of the beatitudes and the like, but it IS very reminiscent of it.  

Better Because...

As I said...he really DID sacrifice something.

Robocop: Murphy had a wife and son. What happened to them?
Officer Lewis: Well, after the funeral she moved away.
Robocop: Where did they go?
Officer Lewis: She thought you were dead, Murphy. She started over again.
Robocop: I can feel them... but I can't remember them. 

See, Jesus supposidly commited some sacrifice; but what was it?  He got tortured yeah, but then he was killed and undied.  And he became God.  How is that a sacrifice?  It's more of a cosmic inconvinence.  Murphy on the other hand, makes a constant sacrifice.  His wife and son are alive, but he cannot see them.  The sight of him would be disturbing and painful for them (what with him being a technozombie) and even if he did his condition prevents him from being with them.  So he continues to remain effectively legally dead.  Away from all loved ones for the goal of trying to restore order and decency to his dystopian future.  

#4 Harry Potter

Harry Potter, the boy who lived.  Potter has a destiny, that since birth he has been tied to the fate of the most powerful and twistedly evil sorcerer his world has ever known.  By virtue of his life, he is fated to face Lord Voldemort in a final confrontation.  The book series reveals details of the mystery of how Harry survived the attack that killed his parents and why he and Voldemort and literally linked in spirit.  Voldemort is basically a Lich, an undead being that can survive beyond death and destruction of their body by holding their souls in mystical amulets.  Voldemort went one further and tore his soul asunder to hide in multiple amulets, thinking this would achieve a guaranteed immortality.  To make such an amulet requires him to commit a act of murder, in basically a human sacrifice.  His attempt to do this with Harry's death backfire.  Voldemorts body was destroyed and Harry became a living storehouse of part of Voldemort's soul.  This meant that Harry, inevitably would have to die if Voldemort is to be defeated.  

Break Down of Christ Qualities

* Attempted infanticide assassination against them by a powerful lord

*Must sacrifice their life to defeat evil

Better Because...

Harry is an everyman.  In the books magic is a stand in for academic achievement, and Harry is despite the hand destiny has given him, a normal child.  This is an improvement over the Christian story.  Christ was self sacrificing and good because he was god and tells us we can NEVER be as good.  Harry Potter contrasts this by providing an everyman messiah, and encourages the reader to seek the ideals and virtues that make Harry a hero.  Regardless of strength or intelligence; it encourages the reader to have heart.

#5 Spock

Live long and prosper

 The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

Of all the souls, his was the most human

Spock is perhaps the most beloved character of the Star Trek franchise.  A Vulcan/human hybrid he is shown throughout his career with struggling to unify his Vulcan philosophy (largely logic and rationalism) with his human emotions.  As a being of pure logic, Spock is; ideally, egoless.  Due to his high value in rational rather than emotional thinking he is able to put his own needs and desires aside for what is, objectively best for all.  This leads to his sacrifice to save his friends and crew in The Wrath of Khan.  Spock continues to practice his developed sense of Rational morality after his resurrection   

Break Down of Christ Qualities

*Selfless

*Sacrificed self to save others

*Rose from the dead

Better Because... 

Motivation.  Jesus proscribes self sacrifice and morality and that's seen as having value because of who he is.  Spock's stance however are a result of the logical outgrowth of his axioms.  He wants to maximize the value and good and his actions are what logically follows from that.  He was figure that promoted secular and logical morality and showed that stoicism and skepticism need not be inhuman.  Spock promoted intelligence, rationality and logic as tools for proper moral development.  

#6 The Doctor: Doctor Who

The man who makes people better

With a character that can resurect themselves, saying that The Doctor has beaten Jesus 10 times over is an obvious joke.  However, Each of the Doctors DOES have qualities of the messiah figure.  While the incarnations of the Doctor may not be  universally loving or necessarily even all that nice,  they will go to any lengths to right a wrong that they've just stumbled on. They also have a powerful draw on everyone else. Evil characters obsess over them; good characters leave their lives behind to join them, and often end up making even bigger sacrifices.  

The Doctor; however, is self sacrificing, deplores violence, and tries to bring out the best in those he meets.  He is willing to go to extremes if needed to stop evil, but prefers to use methods that indirectly defeat the enemy, or trick the enemy into defeating themselves over direct violence.  He has a strong faith in humanity and admiration for their best traits.  It is practically etched into his morality code to give the enemy at least one chance to turn back, often offering them help to solve their own problems or better themselves rather than face confrontation.  

The tenth doctor was perhaps the oen with the most overtly Jesus like traits; having actually lived as a human and given that up to resume his mantel at great expense to himself, going to bat on the goodness of humanity several times, and eventually cultivating in what fans call the "Tinkerbell Jesus" scene.  Spoilers btw.

Break Down of Christ Qualities

*Willing to die for humanity

*Friend to all humanity

*Technical pacifist 

Better Because... 

Origin.  The Doctor's origin is a flipflop of original sin.  Where Jesus is born to address how fucked up and useless humanity is, the Doctor is who he is because of the best parts of humanity.  When he started out the Doctor was more of an anti-hero, maybe even anti-villain.  He was a cowardly, snarky and cranky old man.  In his first appearance he was willing to beat a man to death with a rock to save his own skin.  A human stopped him.  Humanity taught the Doctor to be better.  He is the messiah figure BECAUSE humanity made him that way.  Humans showed him that he could be a better person, and he repays the favor.  This is why humans are his favorite species and why Earth is his favorite planet.  Humanity was not given some figure to fix us because we're a bunch of degenerate scum, we created our savior by virtue of our best qualities.  We get a savior because there is something in humans that is redeeming and worthy of being saved.  The Doctor saves humans because they saved him first.  

#7 Guanyin: Buddhism

This is the Jesus figure that blows Christ out of the water.  Guanyin is the bodhisattva associated with compassion as venerated by East Asian Buddhists, usually as a female. The name Guanyin is short for Guanshiyin which means "Observing the Sounds (or Cries) of the World".  The origin of Guaynyin is told in the  Precious Scroll of Fragrant Mountain..   Guanyin started life as a, Miao Shan, the mortal daughter  a cruel king who wanted her to marry a wealthy but uncaring man.  Miao Shan, told him that she would obey his command, so long as the marriage eased three misfortunes: Suffering from age, suffering from illness and suffering from death. When her father asked who could ease all the above, Miao Shan pointed out that a doctor was able to do all of these.

~Laaaaadies~

Her father  forced her into hard labor and reduced her food and drink.  Every day she begged to be able to enter a temple and become a nun instead of marrying. Her father eventually allowed her to work in the temple, but asked the monks to give her the toughest chores in order to discourage her. The monks forced Miao Shan to work all day and all night, while others slept, in order to finish her work. However, she was such a good person that the animals living around the temple began to help her with her chores. Her father, seeing this, became so frustrated that he attempted to burn down the temple. Miao Shan put out the fire with her bare hands and suffered no burns. Now struck with fear, her father ordered her to be put to death.

The executioner tried to carry out her father's orders, his axe shattered into a thousand pieces. He then tried a sword which likewise shattered. He tried to shoot Miao Shan down with arrows but they all veered off. Finally in desperation he used his hands to strangle her. Miao Shan, realising the fate the executioner would meet at her father's hand should he fail, forgave the executioner and let him killer her. It is said that she voluntarily took on the massive karmic guilt the executioner generated for killing her, thus leaving him guiltless. It is because of this that she descended into the Hell-like realms. While there she witnessed first hand the suffering and horrors beings there must endure and was overwhelmed with grief. Filled with compassion, she released all the good karma she had accumulated through her many lifetimes, thus freeing many suffering souls back into Heaven and Earth. In the process that Hell-like realm became a paradise. It is said that Yanluo, King of Hell, sent her back to Earth to prevent the utter destruction of his realm, and that upon her return she appeared on Fragrant Mountain.

Guanyin remains outside of Nirvana despite her enlightenment, refusing to achieve this paradise until all the souls of the hells are saved as well.  

Break Down of Christ Qualities

*Performed miracles

*Was killed and forgave her executioners

*Descended into hell

*Provided salvation for the damned

* Resurrected 

Better Because... 

Now THIS is a deity that really is all loving and all merciful!  Jesus postures that he is all forgiving and all that, and then sends people to hell and lets them burn.  Guanyin is not only merciful and seeks the salvation of the damned, but holds of entering paradise herself until that's complete.  She sacrifices her own heaven basically, so that the damned can have a chance to escape their fate.  There's no getting around this.  Guanyin by actually attempting to destroy hell and save the souls there, is more merciful and loving than Jesus is.   There's no contest.  Give the lady her prize!